years and a narrow casting example. but the new york city subway used to have posters written spanish advertising a gay, lesbn domestic violence hot line. that's how fine grained it get in new york new york city on the subway pushing welfare programs. it informs and pushes them. >> but getting back to the poverty program and they're pushing food stamps and welfare programs and they have a tendency to keep poor people poor. once you are on the dole it is hard tore get off. >> it is. incentives are wrong. they encourage people to stay on it. it is it a growth crisis. economic growth is easy and if we get the policies right, a lot of these people get off of it and i agree with victoria that we have a welfare industrial complex. and in order to keep these people on food stamps, we got to -- >> and creating a sense of depeppedency from fdr and bill clinton and senators . is is not just republicans and conservatives. >> that is it a valid. if you want to reform welfare to resolve the problems that you are raising. they are valid problems . we will not mix it up by condemning people who need

paid more. the new "new york times" put thn the front page saying mcdonalds pays her $8, but she deserves $15 #. civil ights groups, union demanda higher living wage, and they may get it. [chanting] >> the big bad union like the big bad wolf like the government use force. if they want a $15 minimum, that's what employers must pay. that sounds good to people. everyone will get a raise. the problem comes from what is not seen. i can interview the guy who got a raise. i can't inrview the guy who didn't open a mcdonalds because work rules were too onerous or those never offere a job because hh union paid skills protected him out of a job. we don't kno who those people are. they are the unscene victims of the government's protections. it's frustrating to explain the unseen. sometimes i fear no one unders

with his referendum on an islamist back to constitution. the new york times bureau chief in cairo, david kirkpatrick insting th the muslim brotherhood s not, and i do ," not violent by nature and have come over the last couple of decades, you off me and mor into a moderate conservative but religious moderate regular old political frce. well, joining us now is jonathan chancellor, former counter-terrorism analyst, current vice president of research for the foundation for defense of democracy, and it is good to have you with us. your eaction to kirkpatrick's descriptio. >> let me first say that the brotherhood, when it was ounded did have a violent army, and that was one of the reasons why the egyptian government ended up railroading get out of the political system. over time the brotherhood has vowed to be a nonviolent organizations over the last several decades. -- lou: i am going to beg you for something because we're really pushed for tim >> yes,. lou: if you wil, was history and more in your judgment. >> sure. bottom line is thathe brother is the cornerstone of every violent organizat

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